The Healing Power (and cautions) of Ayahuasca & The Spirit of Transformation: "ESKAWATA KAYAWAI" with Patrick Belem
Patrick Belem is a journalist, filmmaker, musician and spiritual seeker. He has recently spent the last 6 years co-filming and editing a feature doc on the cultural renaissance of the Huni Kuin First Nation of Novo Futuro village, Amazon rainforest called Eskawata Kayawai Film.
Follow and Support the film here: / eskawatafilm
Follow Patric on Instagram: / ptrckbelem
Support Patrick's Crowdfunding for His Music: https://gofund.me/10a8f4ba
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[00:00:00] We as Western people, we have this big void inside ourselves there's this big gap of belonging of community of meaning
If you are interested in plant medicine, this episode is for you. I would not be who I am were it not for the strategic use of the right plant medicine, with the right guides, in the right setting. But most of the people That study or support plant medicine today have this aura of inauthenticity about them They're almost disconnected from the roots and the source of how this plant medicine is meant to be used consumed and celebrated Enter patrick.
Patrick is a man of many expressions. He's a filmmaker musician spiritual seeker He completely breaks the notion of the way plant medicine is portrayed, especially on social media. And he really grounds us in the way we should be thinking about using it. He recently co released a film, which we speak about a ton in the video, [00:01:00] Eskawata Kayawai, which I was fortunate enough to see here in Cape Town at the Labia Theatre.
The film shows the revival and intricacies of the Huni Kuin. It was amazing to say the least, and it will be released to the public. At the end of the year towards November. But before we begin, please like subscribe and comment on this video. If you enjoy it, it really goes a long way to help me fund this channel and get future guests on your support means a lot to me.
It's an honor to walk this path. And without further ado, let's begin this conversation with Patrick Belem.
Josh Snyman: Patrick, good to have you a brother. Haux Haux I've been, been waiting a long time to, to have this conversation. So I'm really, really excited to, to have it. And I just want to express my gratitude for, to having you on this this podcast. So thanks. Thanks for your time.
Patrick Belem: My pleasure, Josh.
Josh Snyman: can you, can you explain the meaning for maybe my audience that doesn't know? Because I'm, I'm super passionate about the intersection between [00:02:00] ancestral diets and mindfulness and movements and really integrating all of these sacred, sacred Things we've been doing our whole life together, but and I kind of want to weave that into the conversation today somehow, which I think we'll get into, but can you explain the meaning of, of "haux" to maybe people that don't know?
What exactly does it mean?
Patrick Belem: Yeah, Haux it's one of these, it's, it's interesting because if everything we translate from the Hacha Kuin most of the time there's not like a really precise translation, no? Because it's so far away from, from Western languages, we could say.
But people say that it means let the healing begin or something like that, no? And it's interesting because it's a word that back in the time. Just the, the pajes the medicine man, the medicine woman pronounces. No, so not everyone could say this word because it's such a sacred word. [00:03:00]
Josh Snyman: Yeah, I won't actually, I thought to myself, should I even mention it?
Because I've heard it's probably a bit it's a bit taboo to mention it outside of a ceremony setting. So hopefully I'm not overstepping the boundaries there, but it's obviously a word that's, that's traveled with me a lot and it's not something I use lightly. It's, it's, I think, I think our conversation today is going to be conducive to.
To some, some healing in, in some way, shape or form to anybody who listens to it. So I appreciate you, you elaborating on that because I think we're going to get into that. There's this, there's this dichotomy and divide between the West and the traditional ways of doing things. And, and that's what's so beautiful about, about, and that's what led me to this conversation is the way you express it.
And. You bring so much heartfelt presence and understanding to this conversation to, to that conversation itself. So I'm, yeah, I'm super excited. But maybe before we, we, we, we, we dig our feet in, how do you describe yourself to the world? Like [00:04:00] professionally or personally, you can tackle that however you like.
Patrick Belem: Man. So I don't know. I do many things, many different forms of expression. No I'm a journalist. Somehow I ended up on this. And filmmaker, you know, we had the, we have the Eskawata Kayawai the film. We're going to talk a little bit about it. So there's my music as well. I was born in a family with many musicians.
And I had this, this, this blessing, you know, so since I was like seven, eight years old, I was, they were doing the samba, you know, on the meetings and I was just there with the shaker already. So I got into that pretty early. I don't know, I write as well. I compose songs any, many different forms of, of art and expression, no?
So it's hard to, [00:05:00] to, to put in, to put a label on it, no? But I feel that all of that is pretty much related to spirituality somehow, no? To this path of, of finding the truth and whatever that is and why we're here, no? My family, my grandmother, she started It's like because Brazil is something interesting because it's a big soup of different cultures and different ways of especially regarding spirituality, you know, so you have influence from the Christianism from the Afro religions from the indigenous and you put everything on.
all these elements on this big soup, no? So my grandma, back in the time, she, she started this place, which is card, cardicism, which is this way that came from France, back in the time that works with spirits and entities and so on. [00:06:00] And there was also some elements of, of Umbanda on it, you know, these same entities would come and, and do the healings and the blessings.
And my, my whole family, they, they used to work on this place, you know, to serve on this place. So they used to receive these spirits and so on. So I remember when I was a child, I would go there with my mom and I would look at it and, and I got a bit obsessed. No, I would see my, my family members receiving these spirits and acting different and their face expressions, their, their, their voice, no.
And I would come to my grandma and, and. What, what is going on? No, what is this? And she was like, no, no, don't worry. Don't worry. And I was, yeah, but no, can you explain me? And my whole life I was asking her and, and she would never explain anything. She would just grab me by the hand, put me sitting on the table and just, just concentrate.
So, [00:07:00] because of that, somehow, I think I started, like, getting obsessed about what, what was all that, you know, what, what is spirituality, what is, what is the truth behind all that, and, and actually, one big question was that if every, all of that is, is true, you know, if it's, like, how does that work, you know?
So I started very early, like, I don't know, 14, 15 years old, going everywhere and asking like, what is my mission here? What, what's, what's all that? No. And when I was 18, I got into, into Ayahuasca here in Brazil. And then after a few ceremonies, like on my fifth ceremony, somehow I could see like all this spiritual.
world that happens, no? And I was, okay, so all this is true. [00:08:00] So like, understanding, no? That, that it, it, it, it actually exists, no? So I feel all, everything I do somehow is related to To this spirituality, no, to this bringing somehow from that place to, to here, no, it's powerful. I could say, no,
Josh Snyman: that's, yeah, that's beautiful, brother. Yeah, it's I, I, I want to dive into, into ayahuasca a bit more and, and the intricacies of that, but let's also maybe let's maybe start with the film because just to give people context, you released this. beautiful film explaining Eskowatakai way and the ways of the Huni and the, the sacred medicine of the forest and how it, how it's [00:09:00] basically transforming the, it's reviving the culture in a way.
But Can you maybe talk about a bit about the film that you've released and the meanings, the origins, the why you can go as deep into it as you want. But I mean, I will obviously link it in the show notes or the I'll link it so people can check out where you are and where you're based and whatnot.
And I don't know, is it available online at the moment to view, or would you have to go see it somewhere? Yeah, not yet. It's going to be available in November. In November. Okay. Awesome. So I'm, I'm, I'm lucky enough to have seen it. I saw it here in the Labia theater in Cape town, and this was after the ceremony, which you were in, and I would maybe speak about as well, which was probably one of the most transformative experiences of my life.
But yeah, let's, let's maybe just dive into the film. Let's, let's, let's go. Let's start there.
Patrick Belem: So, yeah if we, if we go on this, on this timeline from this moment [00:10:00] of that ayahuasca entered my life, no back in, back in the time in, in my city, there were no It wasn't common for indigenous to come, you know, and do ceremony and so on, as it's now in Brazil, it's, it's super huge.
So there were these places where you would go, lay down on a mattress, they would put like a playlist, and you would be there, you know, four or five hours. And the first moment that I was, that the Huni Kuin arrived to my city. It was Pajé Sabino, no? He's this elder from, from Jordão River. And it was him and his son.
It was like the first time his son got out of the forest. And, and that just blew my mind. It was something that I couldn't, I couldn't believe because back in the time I couldn't, I didn't know that people could sing, you [00:11:00] know? on that because for me it was so strong and I didn't know people could even see it.
For me it was something you, you drink the medicine, you lay down and you just go, no? So when I saw that I, I, I got, blew my mind. I was, man, I need to find a way to, to see what's that or to see what's there on the source, no? To meet these people, to see how they organize themselves and so on. So me and Lara, Lara Jakorski, she's the other director.
We, we have a film company, film independent company, that is just the two of us together for many years. And we were doing short films, traveling around in, in Asia, here in Latin America, and mostly like social films. So this was something that we, we had experience with, no? So my idea was to To go [00:12:00] there, no, to find a way to, to go there and to, to see what's up in there.
And it was also another big dream to, to see how these people organize themselves, no, kind of out of the system, but how, how the human being can organize themselves in a community with different ways, different paths, no. So I sent an email to the Skawotankaya Way Festival, to Vini. He was the one responsible for the festival at the time.
And, and my idea was to make a short film on the festival, no? As we were used to do, no? Just to go there, participate, and give something back, no? As, as an exchange. So, but when I got there, I saw that There was so much, no? I think there was a big gap between, I [00:13:00] mean, people going to ceremonies and and seeing this, this side of the Huni Kuin O on, on medicine, on music and so on.
But I felt there was a gap of their, their culture as a whole, no? How they live, how they, how they survive, what are the other aspects of their, their culture, the stories, the things that are not, necessarily related to the medicine itself, no? So I came back with the footage and, and Lara watched it and she was also, man, we, we gotta, we gotta go further into that, no?
We gotta, we can make a a full film about it, no? And then we started the crowdfunding. We had more than 300 people that, that contributed, you know, for this to, to, for us to be able to, to do this film. So, like, [00:14:00] also to thank all these people, you know, it's always very important. And, and then we went back on the forest and then the whole thing started, you know.
It was four, four years filming back and forth, you know, going to the village and coming back. And two years of post production. Editing, coloring sound and so on. We had many partnerships on the way because just the logistics, you know, to go there and film and the village is located very far away.
You arrive in Rio Branco, in Acre, then from there you gotta get like five, six, seven, depends on the on the road conditions drive to this, to the, to this community, to this tiny little city. And then from there, it's at the time with the boats we could afford, it was four days going up the river. [00:15:00] Wow.
Four days. Wow. Yeah. So, so just the logistics behind it are already a lot, you know, you've got to find a driver. You've got to take all the fuel. You're going to be paying for the driver as well. Take all the food that you're going to consume up there, you know, taking gifts for everyone. So, so it was a big, big process.
No. Um,
So yeah, the film basically takes Tells the story of the Huni Kuin from this river, you know, which is the Humaitá River. We started with the, with Novo Futuro, which is the village of Pai da Mata. He is the, the, the chief, the leader. And, and we wanted to contemplate all the villages from the same river, you know.
So we, we came up with the boat and we stopped in each, each village, you know, for all of [00:16:00] them to, to participate on the film. And the film tells, tells pretty much their story. No, they came from a place of back in the eight, eight, 1890s, there was a big demand for rubber, you know? So many people from all over the country were going to the state of factory to, to work, taking out the rubber from the trees, you know?
And With that, there was a big demand for, for working power, you know. And they started hunting the indigenous with dogs, and enslaving them to work on this rubber industry, you know, that was coming up. So, many of them, they would do, like a tattoo on them. And they would belong to this, to this family, not to this person, to the, to the owner, no, of the, of the rubber thing.
And then back in the time, they were not allowed to, [00:17:00] to practice their, their culture. No, they were not allowed to sing their chance to do their ceremonies to, they would also split their families many times. So they, they had, they could somehow limit their power, no. And And I feel that from, from that time, there was like a big scar, you know, that like a lot of prejudice against them and so on.
And in this specific river, I mean, each river have a different story, you know, things happened in a different way. This specific river, they got really, really far from the culture. No, I don't know if we can say that they lost it because it's something so deep within them, but, but they have to, they had to take it back.
No. So there was a point where. Alcohol and, and, and the Evangelicals, the church was, was super strong in the villages. [00:18:00] And I know that a few of them, they had an experience in Santo Daime that was very relevant for this, for this change that where they could see how the village was before, you know, they could see on the medicine, all the people in a big circle.
and the Pajé in the center singing and so on. So they decided together, the, the, this new generation, they decided to go back to, to the roots, no? So they, they kicked out the church, they banned alcohol and they started this work of, of rising the culture again, no? Living as, as their ancestors used to live, no?
So the film pretty much tells this story, but, but also getting to[00:19:00]
Josh Snyman: Yeah, that's, I mean, it's, it's so telling. And you mentioned What's beautiful is you mentioned like the medicine being, you know, it's just one part of the culture and there's so much more to it. And, and I think Western, the Western side of things has, has, has idolized this. The medicine as just the medicine and you take it and it will solve all your problems and But there is this in the film so so beautifully depicts the the realities of community, you know spending time in the forest and nature and and all of these Things that contributes to the wellbeing of, of the society, not just, you know, not just the medicine.
And you spoke about when, when I, when you, when you took questions at the theater, when I watched the film, you spoke about people not becoming one of [00:20:00] the Huni as, as they tend to do when they, when they go into the forest and spend a week with them in their ceremony setting, it's so easy for a Westerner to come in and, and now become like a safe, a self proclaimed shaman or pajay.
Can you maybe speak to that a bit more? Because I think this is super important and worth stressing.
Patrick Belem: Yeah thanks. Yeah, I feel that the film somehow takes all this, the Honey Queen and, and, and the way of living, the film put it, put it all that into a very romantic place, no? Because you watch the film and everything looks amazing and everything is beautiful, it's full of colors and you see how, you know, everyone is happy and well organized and, and there's a lot of meaning,
So we got into this big crisis on man, how, how this is going to contribute to this, this, not [00:21:00] this commercialization of ayahuasca, this banalization of ayahuasca and, and, and also cultural appropriation, no, because the message we, we The message we don't want people to get from the film is okay, so let's just go there, you know, everyone is happy there, we drink medicine, we, we hunt, we, we fish and life is perfect, you know.
So, so I, I felt, I feel this responsibility, you know, of, of, you know, bringing people back to the ground after the film, you know, I feel like it is as important as as the film it is, you know, so, so I personally believe, man, that
we as Western people, we have this big void inside ourselves,
Patrick Belem: you know,
there's this big gap of belonging of community
Patrick Belem: of, you know,
of meaning,
Patrick Belem: [00:22:00] and we can easily get trapped into going, I don't know, within any Indigenous community and, and seeing how accepted we are and, and how much they, they, they let us in, you know, and easily get mistaken that, okay, so now I found my, my tribe, no, my, my people that I've been looking for all my life, because where we come from, we don't really feel that we belong, that we are part of all that, no?
And so I feel the danger of, of filling up this void with, with this, no? And, and the reality is that we At least me and yourself, we are not indigenous, right? And people that are not indigenous, they were not born as indigenous, probably for a reason, right? I [00:23:00] believe that if we were supposed to be indigenous, we would probably be born in a In a village, you know, and, and then comes with that within that there's many different questions and, and subjects, which things are gets very delicate, you know, just as we were, as we were talking in the beginning about the word house, you know, If we see today, man, there's all kind of people using this word for all kind of things.
Mm-Hmm. Not too long ago, there was a, someone started a beer company and the beer was called Hush. Oh wow. Everyone was like, you know, how can you be so stupid to do something like that? And you can see all kinds of cultural appropriation. And, and the thing is that when all the, when this happens this culture becomes a product, you know?
There's the, there's the, that's, that's the, the, the tendencies of how people start [00:24:00] selling their, this, this culture. And then, and then meaning and meaning just goes away, right? Become something superficial and, and, and sellable and this without saying that probably the biggest problem within all that would be people going to the village, staying there for a month or so and, and.
buying like big feathers and so on and, and coming back home. Okay. The medicine told me that I need to start serving. I was in my country, you know, and this is completely nonsense. And then from, from this place. You see all kinds of abuses of, you know, because, because all this is super serious, no? And, and [00:25:00] we came to the time of, of, of of this industry of Ayahuasca kind of taking place, no?
I like when you said about this whole context, no? And I really believe that we need all this context for ayahuasca to, to, to be in a healthy place, not to sprout healthily, you know, as, as a seed, you know, because we see that many research nowadays, they, they, they go there with this very scientific Western mind, they go and they take out this molecule, you know?
So, We look of all, we look to all that, no? We have the forest, we have nature, we have community, we have tradition, we have culture, we have family. And they go with, in all that, and they take out the molecule, no? Let's take out just DMT and research this thing, no? And do [00:26:00] tests and do, I don't know, all the research with this molecule, no?
And, and then I see the danger, man, of, on, on taking this out of context, you know, because somehow there's a need of all these elements for, for this molecule, you know, to work in a, in a healthy place, you know, and, and then you come to the place also that most of this research is, don't have any indigenous involved and so on.
You know, I cannot say all of them, but the ones I've that the ones that have been crossing my path they all come from this mentality of Psychedelics and you know LSD and and so on and but we forget that this within the context of ayahuasca There is a very ancient and high technology that these guys have acted [00:27:00] have access to know that it's important to to take in consideration right on how to know how to navigate this these different realities And I feel that at the same time I say this it's important to say that It's not something that all of them have, no, this is something that probably a few are born with, no, but anyhow, it's something that is, that is within the traditional.
So, so I feel it's important to take in consideration.
Josh Snyman: Yeah, there's I think, yeah, the, the, the importance of ceremony and, and doing these things in a ceremonial setting and, and with the right people is can't be, Can't be understated enough, you know, it's it really it has made me and I'm and I'm it's it's I've been [00:28:00] I've been called to want to do the medicine for a long time, but I always promised myself that I would do it in the right environments.
And unfortunately that showed up in my life and, and you were there and you were present and it was amazing. And like I said, it, it, it was so powerful and so overwhelming and I felt this deep sense of responsibility because I can easily see how, how people who, who may not have the self awareness. That's needed that can experience what I and yourself or somebody else has experienced.
And now you develop this God like complex and you now think you are enlightened and you now are here to share this and that's your mission. But there is a deep, deep sense of like responsibility and respect that comes with, with taking this, this, this, Yeah, the mother of the forest, the sacred, sacred medicine.
Patrick Belem: Yeah, [00:29:00] I, I, I feel that the plant, I mean, also the plant and I, I, I think we could also say that these ancients, these very old traditions, they are beyond polarity, no? Like this concept of good and bad, of right and wrong, no? That probably come from a Christian. no way of, of putting things. So I believe that this plant, she just puts you there, you know, and if you have someone that, I don't know, doesn't have good intentions or either it's not prepared as it should be, you know, things can get really, really messy and just bring people more.
more trauma and more, more things to deal with, you know, and when I say all this, I don't want to, I don't mean that only indigenous should be serving this medicine, you know, but I know [00:30:00] many Western people that, that really do a good job and, and You know, that, that are responsible within doing that, but, but I see that all of them are somehow learning from indigenous and, and taking them in consideration, right?
Because I believe this path, man, to, to do that, it's something that is not pleasurable. It's not something that is, that it's, that it's that beautiful or that romantic as people see, you know, it's probably one of the hardest, you know, to really dive deep into your spirituality, into darkness and so on, no?
And, and the more you take the, the biggest, the responsibility, comes and the big the, the, the tests also come, no? And, and it's really easy to just [00:31:00] lose your mind in the process and get, get lost, no? Somewhere within all that. And, and I personally feel that just to be, you know, Same nowadays with all we have is already hard enough, right?
Better than to get so deep into all that, you know? There are many people that go to the forest to die it. And I feel that this is very important to say because people get enchanted easily, you know, by this. this medicine by these cultures within the medicine and, and they just go and die it. And many of these indigenous, they, they don't really see if people are capable of it.
No, if people have the right tools to do it. I mean, many, many of these [00:32:00] families, they, They are in a huge need of resources, and so they just take some people in to cover that. And many people come out of the forest just disturbed, man, you know, for opening up so many doors and with these plants and not being able to have a regular life again.
And then we come to this place of the context again, no, because if you're going to go and spend six months isolated with, with some, no consuming some plant, you have this whole community, this whole environment to support you after, and which is not the case
Josh Snyman: many times. Yeah. I mean, you touched on something there, which I think is worth elaborating on is because.
You know, as, as, as beautiful as the ceremony setting can be, [00:33:00] and as beautiful as your experience can be, as profound as it is, you know, it is just an experience. And, and what I noticed is as a Westerner living in a, in a Western world, living in South Africa, but you know, you very quickly come back to reality and you very quickly see things for the way they are.
So it's not like. There, there, there is, I'm very passionate about integration and I've done a few plant medicine journeys. Ayo, Oscar was the, was our most recent with you present, but you know, doing the work day to day is, is probably the hardest thing you're going to do, you know, facing your demons every day.
So, so not putting too much faith in, in, in, in the medicine and the ceremony to solve all your problems. You actually need to take. The lessons with you and and integrate them and and and realize that the integration the day to day is is is the most important piece, you know, becoming a better person, you know, [00:34:00] I don't I don't know what you think about that, but it's something that I think about often because I see lots of people placing way too much value, you know, ongoing and hey, medicine solve my problems for me and But, but most of the time it's, it's just an escape.
You just want to actually escape your problems. You don't actually want to face them.
Patrick Belem: Yeah, I, I definitely agree, man. I feel that the big work is here. No, it's on this side. No, otherwise we would be there. No, just there like naturally. Yeah, I feel, I feel it's definitely can be some form of, of escape, no.
And yeah, the thing is that in, in, in the ceremony, you have all these elements, no, that are, That puts you in this enchanted place, no? And, and I feel that, personally, I [00:35:00] think that a lot that happened within the medicine is our own projections. You know, and I could say that most of it, no because you see so many people that drink ayahuasca their whole lives, 30, 40 years and doing all kinds of, you know, basic misunderstandings of life of all kinds of, of abuses and so on.
And just like regular people with, with a dark and a light side, no. So, so it's not a miracle that the medicine is going to, it's going to do the healing or, or, you know, probably going to show you something and, and you've got to work on it by yourself, you know, and, and apply the changes and then, and then, yeah, and then comes the, the big integration, right, [00:36:00] which, which is probably applying all this into your life, you know, I feel, I feel somehow that Ayahuasca has the power to, to like a restart.
No, many. many functions within our social lives, emotional lives, interior lives, no? If, if we can say that the plant brings new connections, no, in our brains, we can say that gives us the opportunity to, to open up new paths and different ways of, of living life, no? So, so then integration becomes essential thing on the process, right?
Josh Snyman: Yeah, absolutely. That was a very beautiful way of describing it. Of the, one of the beautiful things that I, that I love seeing in the film was you showed the depiction, you showed, you [00:37:00] showed the, the Huni hunting this, the deer and, and holding on their back and walking through the forest. And I mean, me personally, I, I love that you showed this and I want to know if it was intentional because, because I'm very passionate about eating ancestrally, you know, eating lots of quality grass fed meat.
And fruits staying away from, you know, packaged food and stuff. But I believe that plant medicine and, you know, meats and quality meat can live together. And I think it's essential. Because the reason I'm saying this is because especially now amongst the plant medicine community is in Cape Town or globally, there's this like almost this vegan agenda behind it.
It's like, if you do plant medicine, you have to become a vegan now and you have to. you have to do certain things that align with the plant medicine and, and you're, you showing that in the film was the, was the, was the prompt for me to be like, [00:38:00] wow, I really want to speak to this guy. I really want to speak to Patrick.
This is, this is cool because this is exactly what, I think needs to be shown. And I saw, I was looking at the audience and a few people were like, Whoa, this is, this is like, this is the realities of living in the forest, but nevermind just the forest. I mean, this is, this is the realities of living a, an integrated life is that you need to fuel your body with what it needs, you know, not just depriving it of, of, of one source of fuel, you know?
So yo, was that, was that intentional or what was the, what was the meaning behind showing that in the film? The, yeah, I would love to know .
Patrick Belem: So the, actually, this scene is, is funny to say that there's the whole scene of, of him cleaning the, the deer, you know? Mm-Hmm. Opening up, taking out the, the, the parts inside that are not used, taking out the skin and so on.
Mm-Hmm. And, and I put it on the film. No. [00:39:00] And then Lara, she was like, no, man. We don't need to, she's a vegetarian, no? We don't need to have that on the screen. No, no, let's, let's leave it there. Let's leave it there. It's nice for people to see it, you know, no, no, there's not any, then we, okay, we decided to cut it not to, to get, you know, to rise more, more, I don't know, more questions about it and more surprises, no.
So, but that part, I don't know, the way we did, we, we work is like we. It's how we see reality, no? It's what's happening while we're there. So it wasn't really something that was put on the film with an intention regarding that, no? It was just something that for them is like usual. It's their routine. We felt that was [00:40:00] important to be shown, no, but regarding like diet, I would, we can say that depends on the, on the culture itself, no.
And depends on, yeah, for example, in Peru, many traditions, they don't really eat red meat, you know, before ceremonies and so on. Especially when diets, no, when people are doing diets, the, the, there are many different elements that, that people cannot, cannot eat, but within the Huni Kuin, in their regular life, they, they eat meat before the ceremony always.
And I don't know if red meat, all of them, but, but definitely some of them. And for me personally, I, I prefer, you know, because I feel [00:41:00] that I'm more steady on, on ceremony, you know, I'm more present. I feel that I was a vegetarian for many years and I feel that back in the time I would be just like a balloon being blown everywhere.
So I feel that the meat kind of gives you this different presence on it. Mm.
Josh Snyman: Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for mentioning that. And, and it makes sense. I mean, that, that's just, yeah, it sounds like that's, again, that's the purpose of the film is to, is to show the, the hony and in the environment and in their day to day.
And I think you perfectly. Yeah, perfectly depicted that. So, so I really, I really appreciated that. How, how has,
how has it maybe served you in your life? Like, is there some lessons, some big lessons that, that have come through if you, if you're willing to [00:42:00] share or like, What is your journey? You, you briefly touched on it, but, but what's, you know, what's the, what's the thing that you take away from mostly? If there is something, maybe there isn't, but you know, how is, how is working with the plant medicine, you know, altered your life?
Made it better or maybe challenged you. You mean working with, with the indigenous medicine itself? So that is, yeah, yeah,
Patrick Belem: yeah, man. For me, it was a huge revolution, huge revolution. I was yeah. Back in the time when I was like 18, 17, no, I was, I thought my mission was to destroy everything. Yeah. put fire on the whole thing because I, I feel that I was just so sensitive and, and, [00:43:00] and so afraid of the whole thing and that I, I looked at it as, man, we just messed up as a society, as a, as humanity, and probably we should just, put fire on everything and compost it and see if something better grows out of it, no?
So, so I was just wear black and, you know, and as a, also a rebel teenager and all of that, you know? And, and I really, yeah, I didn't, couldn't really find, find a place for myself. And, and then when Ayahuasca came, The first, first ceremonies was just like darkness and devils, you know, and, and all these like, pulling me, pushing me down no end and I had no power or [00:44:00] energy to do anything about it.
So it was just melting down into all that. And and then came a point where I could, man, I felt what love was, no? And, and I could see like, I, I could outside of my body, see this whole universe and, and how perfect it was. No, it is like all the little parts, just like a clock, no. And I could see that I was.
Just a little tiny little dot of part of this whole thing, you know, and I felt just so touched about it and it just felt like so much of a big honor and, and, you know, to be able to be given the opportunity to be, to be part of this whole scheme, you know, and, you know, [00:45:00] And then for the first time I realized that I could really be a nice person, you know?
I can be a nice person and it was so, you know, so amazing to realize that I could be a nice person because before I was always wearing this, this mask or, or something, you know, we can say. So, so this was a huge revolution that I, that I, that I'm grateful for my life, you know? And then, yeah, nowadays I can say.
Just this, all these paths that, that this, this plant has opened for me as a person, as, as a, as an artist, as, you know, just give us, give us so much on the comprehension of, of life and inspiration and [00:46:00] creativity. And I feel that, I feel that this, this, this plants, they give you also. an opportunity to, to go deeper within your potentialities, no?
So I don't know what full potential it is, but this, these plants can definitely deepen your potentiality a lot, no? Into music, into art, into whatever. I don't know if you can say that with whatever it's related to truth, but I don't know if that's true, but, but you can definitely, develop.
Josh Snyman: Yeah, you, you mentioned music and, and, and I think maybe you've got more of a leg to stand on this than I do, but one of the. [00:47:00] I want to touch on your musical journey. You briefly mentioned it about with the shakers, but within the ceremony setting, a big part of the, the, the Hoonies ceremonial way of working with the medicine is, is, is, is using music and it's, it's, it's so, it's so fucking beautiful.
Like I can't even explain how, how energetic and it was just an experience that, that blew my mind. And hearing your voice, Patrick, like your voice was just, it was so amazing, brother. Like I, I was in tears. It felt like I was in a Disney cartoon and you were just singing there and the Pudgeys were just singing their hearts out.
And like, even just speaking to you now is a form of integration for me because it's so beautiful to, to, to, to relive that and remember that. But, but y'all music's a big part of it, eh, it's, it's, it's a part of the, the journey.
Patrick Belem: [00:48:00] Super appreciate it, man. Yeah, thanks, man. I feel that as a musician, no, the, the ceremony put you on, On the place where music should be, you know, because the music is, is, is running the whole thing somehow, you know, and we can get into the place that it's all about vibration, you know, and everyone is so sensitive and so open within the, within a ceremony that, that the music just, just trespass, you know, and
yeah, for me, it was funny because I, I, I started with like, I had a grindcore band back in the time. It was not really a band, but was a project of a band that we were always [00:49:00] No, we never really performed to anyone, but we were always playing together and shouting and and then yeah, I had a, there was another project, which was like instrumental, just instrumental music with, with some other friends.
And then when music came into this place of ceremony, I was super shy to sing, you know, like, man, I don't really, you know, and there was this specific ceremony where Everyone was singing, and it was just so beautiful. And I was, you know, good, I, I, I really wanna sing. And I was like, good. And I had like a singing bowl and then came to my mind, man, I'm gonna drink one more cup and I'm gonna sit and just throw myself, you know, just start singing.
So I went up, I, I, I drank, I went back to my place. [00:50:00] I got the singing bowl and just started. improvising, you know, what, what, what, what was coming and so on. And this completely changed my life, man, because you can, you can see what, what, what happens on, on the medicine itself, no? And I feel that we can, just serve as a vessel to, for these different energies to, to manifest themselves, you know, through chant, through, through, through music, through drumming, for example, no?
And, and there's so much beauty in there of, of just kind of stepping back and let, let the, the, whatever it's there, if it's ourselves, if it's all the different entities, but just experience that [00:51:00] medicine that works somehow as a facilitator, you know, for this process to happen. As you know, doors are open, so it's easier to, to let this happen.
So for me, that was a, was a, also a life changing experience. And then I started composing and also there was a lot of influence from the Huni Kuin themselves, you know, of being with them and being traveling with them and being playing music with them. But also a lot of influence from this African Brazilian religions as well.
So, so yeah, it's, I think it's one of my biggest passions and now I'm just this month, I want to start a crowdfunding to record. My first album in, I'm going to record in July. [00:52:00] And it's something that I've been, man, running away from it for many years, you know, because I used to play in this, in this band that was, was like jazz, samba, you know, instrumental.
And, and then after making these songs with the guitar and most of them, many of them, they're super simple, you know, it's just these three chords and so on. And I was, man, it was a big process to go over the, the, I don't know how you can say, I don't know if it's a shame or, you know, it was like, man, you know, the fear of being judged with, which is so stupid, right?
Because we. Life is so short and we're given the opportunity to,
if we have a, an art, we just put it out, right? These fears and this [00:53:00] perfectionism. So I finally got over that.
Josh Snyman: Wow. Well, I mean, that's amazing to hear. Like it really is. And, and it's like inspiring me even right now, because like I say, I, I've taken a big step away from my art form, which I believe is, I'm a photographer and filmmaker at my day job, but.
I love speaking to people and I love putting out content and a big part of me took a big step away from that. But, you know, the medicine has, it has changed my life in the sense that it's given me my calling back and it's, it's, it's shown me. That my purpose is here to bring joy and I'm here to, I'm here to serve and, and, and I, I, I resonate with you because I have been running away from it and, and, and I, and, and life is so short, so why, you know, why, why put yourself in, in, in, in the what if situation, you know, what if you, you did [00:54:00] it, I mean, and I, and I think there's, there's something to be said and, I want to be respectful of your time, Patrick.
I don't want to keep you out too much longer because I'm sure you, you maybe got something to do, but there's something to be said about just doing things for the sake of doing it and, and just letting the art be art, you know? And I even heard somebody after the ceremony mentioned, you know, we should, we should record the whole thing and we should, you know, this hasn't been taped or televised, but the beauty of it is, is, is that is, is being in the moment with everyone.
And being with all the energies and not having that recorded or, you know, there's something so beautiful and sacred about that, about it just being what it is, is that beautiful moments in time with all these people, you know.
Patrick Belem: Yeah. And this, this somehow the right to, [00:55:00] to die, you know, give the, the, the, this, this, this moment, the right to pass, you know, and not the need to, to, to be there for eternity or however we want to.
But I, I feel really happy, man, that, that you got inspired. And, and this is something that has been on my mind a lot lately, you know, since I decided to record there, there's nights that I just start thinking about it. And I, and I can sleep the whole night. Man, if, is, am I going to be able to do this? These people are going to donate to the project is like, you know, all these insecurities, but I feel that at the end of the day, man.
If we don't start [00:56:00] something, I mean, sometimes this thing is not the right thing, but it's something we, we put it out, we do it. And then from this, another door is going to open. And from this door, things go to the place where they need to go. Right. So we just got to do it, man. We just got to put it out.
Josh Snyman: Thank you, brother. I want to end on a strong note. I really appreciate your time and, and, and I'll definitely link. I don't know if it's going to, you said in June, but I'll definitely link cause this video will be living online for a long time. I'll definitely link everything you've mentioned in the, in the show notes and things like that.
But is there any other parts in comments you want to, want to, want to say before we, we, we put a, put a wrap on this Patrick?
Patrick Belem: Yeah. I want to, first of all, thank you for the opportunity to be sharing a little bit. So yeah, [00:57:00] deep pleasure to be sharing. I feel it's very important to share these things about the film, about the culture, about the indigenous peoples, about the medicine, you know, because I feel that there's this big industry of, I don't know if you can say wellness, no, but there's this big industry coming up of healing and put pretty much healing on this place of individuality, no?
And then this becomes like a curriculum of healing practices or whatever, you know, and people are spending, you know, tons of money within all that. And I feel it's very important to rethink, you know, especially when we add medicine, when we add ayahuasca into the mixture, to rethink the direction. we're taking within all that, you know because this mixture is really sensitive.
So [00:58:00] I super appreciate to have a, to be able to share the little bit I know about all this. And, and also Yeah, thanking Lara, which is the other director of the film, and also And all the honey queen know that open up their, their doors for us to be able to, to share this film. Thinking also Tanya No, which is the responsible there for, for the family from South Africa that received the, the, the, the, the film there as well.
So just super grateful man. Super appreciate it. And also if just inviting people to, yeah, to follow us on. Hmm. On the social media film and also opening up this, this crowdfunding for the, [00:59:00] for the music .
Josh Snyman: Yeah. Looking forward to it. Thanks Mr. Patrick. Wishing you a, a blessed day, that side of the world.
And it's all the, I, I feel like Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go for it.
Patrick Belem: Just one more thing that I, that came back to my mind that I remember now we are taking small groups to, to a different village to Pinuia every year. This year is going to happen in, by the end of November. Most of the time is November. So everyone is invited.
No.
Josh Snyman: Okay.
Patrick Belem: To, to go there. It's like a cultural immersion. We take from this place. No, it's not a healing retreat. It's not where you're going to hear the traumas, but it's, it's a cultural immersion within the Huni Kuin